Public and Commercial Services Union

A hustings event was held in Glenrothes -  Rothes Hall - on Wednesday 29 October 2008.         

PCS members, along with colleagues from the Fire Brigade Union, and other interested parties attended this Question Time.  

All 8 candidates were in attendance for the introduction, but unfortunately Lindsay Roy (Labour) had to leave at 7pm due to a prior engagement.

If you live in the Glenrothes area, do make sure that you vote - turnout is usually lower in a by-election than in General Elections, so your vote may count for a little more than normal.  Whoever is successful, we will be reminding them of any supportive statements they may have made during the election campaign.

Please see below the questions asked, and the candidates' responses:

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Harry Wills, Liberal Democrats: We value public sector workers and government should be prepared to pay the proper rate for the job. There should not be a pay policy “through the back door”. 2% will not affect inflation.

Maurice Golden, Conservatives: This is quite rich coming from the Liberal Democrats, where are the funds coming from in relation to 2% tax cut? This process is about tough decisions – pay people more, tax people less. Gordon Brown is running this country with an overdraft. We should tighten belts – this means tough choices.

Louise Mcleary, Solidarity: This increase is not really 2% - it is less than 2%. You talk about tough decisions? The Consumer Price Index used by Government is not the correct method – the Retail Price Index should be used as this covers more of the day-to-day items which affect everybody. Public Sector workers and their pay increases do not drive inflation up.

Morag Balfour, SSP: Leaner civil service and financial savings are an obscenity. 5% is the bare minimum increase. Government is showing a lack of respect for their workers. Taxing the wealthy, to give more money to the less-wealthy - this should be the change, and bigger parties have to pick up on this.

Jim Parker, SSCUP: You will appreciate that my party does not have policies on all items raised by the PCS in their initial questions from the General Secretary. However much as I respect anyone who works in the public sector, I do not agree with your present campaign. Public sector workers are employed by us – members of the public. This country cannot continue to employ any more civil servants. For example, the accounts for Fife Council last year showed management costs for 8,000 individuals earned £50,000+ per annum. What about nurses? There should be a sense of perspective here – it is always the vulnerable who suffer.

Comment from Alan Brown, Chair: To inform you that a quarter of PCS members in the civil service earn less than £15,000 per annum. Emergency payments had to be made by employers when the new National Minimum Wage was announced.

Peter Grant, SNP: I am sure a lot of people here agree with me that the salary paid to the Chief Constable for Fife is worth every penny.

There are a number of managers within the private sector who earn in high figures, and they do not cover themselves in glory The difficulty we have here is that the Westminster Government will not fund over 2% - it is their policy we have difficulty with.

Why is inflation set at 5.5%? The Government should be doing something about reducing fuel bills.

They should follow our lead in Scotland by freezing council tax. We are going in to recession – people are becoming worse off, and they should make sure people are protected when they are getting into serious problems.

Do we start asking people at the top to stop taking pay increases? Reducing staff won’t do any good. Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling should be taking note and making changes on pay caps.

Kris Seunarine, UKIP: Although we support the public sector workers, and would echo that the Consumer Price Index is not realistic. – 5.2% is too low, public sector workers including MPs across the board should be cut – there are too many civil servants. Inflation is going up with banks being responsible for printing money.

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Peter Grant, SNP: UK Government did a body-swerve with regards to the fire service pension scheme, and funding was found from last year’s underspend.. This was not allowed north of the border.

The 1% cut which is being asked for is no less than organisations being asked to look at their budgets for the next year as funding is tight. Fife Council have not decided on a figure as yet, but we are looking to see where we can get best value for money – there are areas where we could do more with the same money. It is important to identify efficiencies within services, and that is the strength of the trade unions in Fife Council – by finding new ways to do this, and involving all concerned. There is no easy way to live within the 2% budget.

Jim Parker, SSCUP: It is important to talk and make necessary judgement. I am not aware of your problems, but we are now living in “third world conditions”. We are in a ludicrous situation and that is how work is being done in the Philippines. The bigger question should be addressed by young people. Extremists are beginning to come in to the situation (like Hitler again), and we are facing big questions. Yes, it is easy to be emotive about the underdogs. It is now too easy to go on strike.

Harry Wills, Liberal Democrats: People do not go on strike without reason. There is something wrong with the system. We can’t pay every award the trade unions set down, but should all work together on efficiency savings, how people can be encouraged to work efficiently. At the lower end of the pay scale, it is important that these people realise the importance of their functions in our society. I cut my teeth in the Wapping situation, and it is important that there is a bridge between what is required in an organisation and the actual functions of the organisation. Alex Salmond should be asking Westminster for more money, and sit down and work with staff, and trade unions, to discuss how we can improve members’ benefits.

Morag Balfour, SSP: I am most concerned that this will put lives at risk. If there are any cuts, especially with emergency services, this will effect us all. I will back FBU all the way.

Louise Mcleary, Solidarity: I would echo Morag’s thoughts here. I am willing to back any FBU campaign on this. I don’t know how savings can be made. The Labour candidate has now “scuttled” off . It is not easy to go on strike. The anti-union laws were set by the Conservatives, and Labour have never got round to revoking these. The Government should sort this out – not trade unions.

Comment from Ken Ross, Scottish Secretary, FBU:
Would like to clarify that we don’t have a big campaign, but we do have serious concerns. Firefighters are frontline and are currently working at the bare bones. You will all be aware of the figures issued in the last few days. Statistics show that survival rates are directly linked to quick response times. You should stop looking at the frontline – people should be looking at the top of the tree, where far too much money is distributed. This cuts fire cover – look at the back door, not the frontline.

Maurice Golden, Conservatives: This is a damming indication of the Labour Government. Can be clearly sent with their policy on war as they see fit, but do not supply vital equipment to troops on the frontline Emergency services should not be cut.

Kris Seunarine, UKIP: Agree that services should not be cut on the frontline. Perhaps savings could be made from cutting equality and diversity training.

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Ray Kelly, PCS member, HMRC
We were informed in 2006 that with office closures in the Perth and Dunfermline, staff would move to join us in Glenrothes, and there is now the threat that we will all now move to Edinburgh! It is now time for this to be sorted out.

Maurice Golden, Conservatives: We will fight to maintain offices in this constituency. Key part of our campaign is to maintain jobs and facilities in this area. It is important for constituents that we deal with issues at a local level.

Peter Grant, SNP: I cannot imagine anyone here who would support office closures in this area. We will all be fighting to keep offices open. We would not want to affect frontline services which in turn would affect the service to the public. People should be entitled to decent pay and conditions. Relocating to Edinburgh is ridiculous. Jobs should be moved to where the people are – fairer, greener – I fully support to keep jobs in Fife.

Harry Wills, Liberal Democrats: We should be reducing big government department, and move jobs back to local areas. The merging of Customs and Revenue was a concern to me in the first place, not just about loss of jobs but from a “liberty” point of view. With a devolved Government, this should be reflected across the country.

Jim Parker, SSCUP: I cannot give guarantees if I was elected as an MP, but I would fight for every job in this area. We need a major boost, but I do not have particular interest or knowledge on the subject.

Louise Mcleary, Solidarity: I would support this campaign. Having this threat over your head for two years must be intense. We have high unemployment figures in Glenrothes, and cannot afford to lose more jobs. I am not in favour of moving jobs to Edinburgh. Centralisation of Social Security offices did not work as they could not cope with the amount of claimants – local offices had to take work back from Call Centres to deal with the workload.

Morag Balfour, SSP: To have this level of insecurity since 2006 must be horrendous. Relocation is even worse – you are being sold down the river. Transport and fuel should be brought in to public ownership – an extreme green policy. I hope things work out.

Comment from Chair, Alan Brown, PCS Scotland NEC Liaison Officer – There would appear to be £25 billion in uncollected taxes within the UK – even a fraction of that would pay to keep this service operational locally.

Rudi Vogels, Campaign Against Charges, Fife

From Fife Council’s own figures, 149 home carers left the service between October 2007 and August 2008, which coincides with the introduction of the home care charges, and this is born out by the fact that the numbers of home care hours over the same period has fallen from 26,300 to 24,200, ie a drop of 2,100 hours. This question is directed to Peter Grant especially – has Fife Council frozen the recruitment of home care workers and if not, why is there such a reduction?

Peter Grant, SNP: This is an inaccurate statement, and would refute these figures. We are putting £25m in to the Social Work Department. It is sad that people are still debating this issue.

(Rudi Vogels approached the candidates’ table with a letter from Fife Council Social Work Service re a Request for Information under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act.)

Peter Grant, SNP continued: I have no problem in having a reasonable adult discussion with anyone, and more than happy to tell people about our exceptional home care staff. I am for the service being modernised with the complex detailed nature of the job, and we have faced difficult decisions within the home care service. But we can quote figures for constituents in Fife who did not have to stay in hospital longer than necessary, etc and have been working together to actually achieve something here. It is only fair that those individuals who can afford to pay do pay. We should be congratulating staff and not flinging abuse at each other.

Harry Wills, Liberal Democrats: We have been through this at several meetings over the last few days. I do not know why you cannot accept the fact that the Liberal Democrats and SNP in Fife Council have taken on a financial mess left by Labour. We are trying to work together to improve social services, not to live in the past. With Labour not having a contingency plan, they blew the budget. Peter Grant has been targeted at every meeting – this was the fault of the Labour Party. Shame on you.

Jim Parker, SSCUP: We have touched on an important subject. I mentioned extremists earlier but people have the right to question competence.

Maurice Golden, Conservatives: I disagree. It is not right for you to make allegations and find that you are not being respectful. Increased care charges is a major issue in this by-election. People are unhappy – this is not political.

Morag Balfour, SSP: I don’t believe people should be charged for home care, but some methods of your campaigning are counter-productive. I would tone your methods down – I am sure we would hear you better if you were to stop shouting.

Louise Mcleary, Solidarity: I believe you are not being aggressive. In general, old people and disabled people are on the margins of society. Figures given are 6000 relying on home care – one-third pay full charges. Means testing is a concern.

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Jim Parker, SSCUP: This subject is close to my heart. Especially in communities such as this when the mines closed. Loss of Miners’Welfare and British Legion clubs, etc: now there is nowhere for people to go and socialise, like in the past. Times have changed but there should be funds available to help the community. These are now the hard facts of life – we are becoming a third world country.

Peter Grant, SNP: It is important to look at what organisations are being funded, who is using these facilities, and perhaps if we can do things in a different way. I agree with Jim that there is a decline in community spirit. We are now in a short-term society, a self-orientated society. Vote for me and I will ensure that, if possible, people may wish to pay more to live in a fairer society.

Maurice Golden, Conservatives: I would like to pick up on Peter’s points – delivery of services I would love very much to support. The closure of Post Offices for example. We have written to the Pensions Secretary – though he has not responded as yet. This is another example of the “heart of the community”. We should all be working together to help try and provide for the community.

Morag Balfour, SSP: I feel that money should be made available for the forums. Respect for the elders is very important – we look to them for advice – you put us right on so many things. I know that I am getting to an age and I want to plan ahead – let’s plan a revolution.

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Louise Mcleary, Solidarity: There is no right time. Welfare reforms are getting rid of weekly Income Support or Incapacity Benefit, and moving to Jobseekers Allowance, which is two-weekly. Disabled people and lone-parents looking for work will find it difficult competing with able-bodied people, even civil servants faced with office closures. There is a drop in flexible working hours and possible cherry-picking of jobs. This will be demoralising, and will lead to being forced into work.

Harry Wills, Liberal Democrats: Is this the wrong time because of recession? Yes, it is. Some people want to get back to work, some don’t have any intention of going back to work. An 8-week training course for people who want to re-train helps - they can make a contribution to society, but are being restricted by the system. We need more flexible reforms to the system.

Morag Balfour, SSP: Just now we are in economic freefall. Money does not get to people who need it. Bearing in mind the new changes this week with invalidity or incapacity benefits, people on the receiving end are being treated less favourably. People will be worse off on this new benefit. At this moment, I feel like a “bag of spuds”, but I choose to be happy and positive about my disability, but for some this may become “trial by torture”. It’s a bit like a large swimming pool – swim or sink – to see how disabled you actually are. I am scared of what the future will hold for people like me.

Jim Parker, SSCUP: Welfare reform should be a radically better deal. How can we afford £180 for every pensioner, and keep Britain at bottom of league of other European countries? There is no hope for a better pension system until we take politicians away from pension funds. We can afford so much – our pensions are earned income which was used to build this country.

Peter Grant, SNP: Depends what you mean by welfare reform – more reforms to save the Government money. This needs to be sorted out. This is an impossible situation. There are people in society who will never be able to work, and we should support people in getting back to work. The success rate is very good in getting people back in to work, but we do have a problem in Scotland. Invalidity Benefit was introduced and this was used to massage employment figures – now the Government states that there are too many people on this benefit. It takes 5 years – a damm good investment – to put them in a position of getting back to work. We have to make it worthwhile for the employer, and significantly increase the employers, to ensure that they take people on to work. Personally, I think there is a big opportunity for Scottish Enterprise to progress these reforms.

Maurice Golden, Conservatives: we need an entirely new welfare system – asking everyone to do what they can, allow people to do what they can – whether it it part-time,or flexible working, to get us out of this recession.

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Morag Balfour, SSP: Everything!

Kris Seunarine, UKIP: Against nationalising.

Jim Parker, SSCUP: Better management – against the need to nationalise.

Harry Wills, Liberal Democrats: Against nationalising, but supported Labour re Northern Rock. Labour dithered – if it doesn’t work, do it properly.

Peter Grant, SNP: Transport – bus and rail companies. ( I hope my party fundraisers aren’t listening!)

Maurice Golden, Conservatives: Lindsay Roy’s diary.

Louise Mcleary, Solidarity: Keep civil servants in public ownership.